Bestselling crime novelist Vanessa Lillie wants you to quit waiting for people to pick you
"I had become much more certain about the story I was meant to tell so that I wasn't turning myself into a pretzel in order to be in the system."
I now have a massive girl crush on this week’s guest, Vanessa Lillie, whose books include Little Voices, For the Best, and Blood Sisters. She’s also the co-author of a fun 80s mystery romp called Young Rich Widows, as well as its sequel, which is coming out next year, called Desperately Deadly Widows.
I’m not the only person crushing on Vanessa: Blood Sisters, which is about two missing Indigenous women and the Cherokee archeologist for the Bureau of Indian Affairs who is searching for them, was a “Good Morning America” Buzz Pick and a USA Today national bestseller.
Hearing Vanessa talking frankly about getting out of the “please pick me!” energy that’s so pervasive in publishing, taking on the responsibility of sharing the stories of your culture—the thrill of fighting erasure and the fear of getting it wrong—and even the ultimate meaning of life really got me fired up to a) read her work, and b) think differently about my own work.
Hope it has that effect for you, too.
“I let myself enjoy my life, which almost feels like sacrilege in this capitalistic society that we live in to be like, maybe I just work a couple hours a day and I enjoy myself the rest of the day. Doesn't that almost feel terrible? I almost feel bad saying it out loud, but I think it's true.”
Listen to Vanessa’s episodes
Vanessa Lillie, practical matters: Basically, a masterclass on how to evolve your mindset
Vanessa Lillie, inner stuff: The thrill of writing about your family and cultural history, and the total fear of writing getting it wrong
Vanessa Lillie, what’s next: So many great recommendations for books, shows, movies
Or, get the complete interview in one episode by becoming a paid subscriber and supporting my work and becoming the recipient of my undying gratitude:
We covered:
Making up stories as a form of escape
How a nagging sense of unhappiness in her 20s and 30s drove her to keep questioning what she should ‘do with her life’
The trip to the airport bookstore that awakened her desire to be an author
The joy–and terror–of having a dream
Using restlessness as a force for creative good
Channeling your childhood and your family history into fiction
The privilege of sharing stories with people who are interested in hearing them
Why it’s so easy to get into a lack mentality as an author
How Vanessa ended up back at square one–no publisher, no agent–after her second book came out
Finding the story you’re meant to tell so that you’re not “turning yourself into a pretzel to fit inside the system”
The tools that helped her get out of that lack mentality
Embracing chaos as a creative and honoring your particular process
“The true privilege is to be able to communicate with people and have some people be interested, which is something I never take for granted. Otherwise, it's just me talking to myself, which is always a possibility. Or my dog, or my very bored husband.”
Stepping out the capitalistic narrative that if you’re not working 9-to-5, or really, 9-to-9, you’re a slacker
Fighting erasure by weaving her family’s story into her books
How Vanessa steadies herself when that anxiety crops up
Embracing the challenge of writing a page turner
Dealing with the fear that your current work isn’t as good as your previous work
Seeing ideas as a butterfly that come and sit on your shoulder (from Elizabeth Gilbert’s book Big Magic)
Why it’s so vital to get clear on why you are the right person to tell this story
Why being in her 40s feels like such a relief
Some frank talk about early motherhood–and why it was a theme in her first novel
Letting go of the idea that your success is within your control
Why she’s so excited about Indigenous storytelling right now
Many recommendations for books, shows, and movies by Indigenous creators
A preview of her sequel to Blood Sisters
Her forays into screenwriting
How you get more rejection once you’re in the door
Keeping an open mind and being very open to failing
The Netflix feminist thriller she stayed up too late watching
A recipe for bomster scallops that I will be trying
Specific things we mentioned:
The Boxcar Children by Gertrude Chandler Warner
Vanessa’s column for The Providence Journal
Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert
Never Whistle at Night: An Indigenous Dark Fiction Anthology by Shane Hawk (Editor)
The Indigenous shows and moves “Reservation Dogs,” “Dark Winds,” “Fancy Dance”
Erica Tremblay, Indigenous director
Lily Gladstone, Indigenous actress
Andrea L. Rogers, Indigenous author
“Fair Play,” the Netflix thriller Vanessa stayed up too late watching
Dolly Parton on failure
Where to connect with Vanessa:
On Instagram (check out her reels tab to see her 150+ IG Lives with fellow crime authors)
Listen to past episodes:
A.J. Jacobs, practical matters: Is it possible to schedule when you'll get your next idea?
A.J. Jacobs, inner stuff: Replacing the pursuit of success with something more meaningful–and more doable + a great reframe for problems he learned from Quincy Jones
A.J. Jacobs, what’s next: The benefit of sharing your ideas with people while you’re still working on them + baking for democracy
Christopher Brown, practical matters: Resisting “society’s pressure to specialize”
Christopher Brown, inner stuff: Making sure your writing “bites into the copper wire” of your story, even if you’re not exactly sure how to do that, exactly
Christopher Brown, what’s next: Seeking the intersection of “nature’s cosmic majesty and the banality of everyday life” + book recommendations a-plenty
Christine Chitnis, practical matters: Marrying business and creativity + when the only routine thing about your morning is chaos
Christine Chitnis, inner stuff: Dealing with the fear of aging out of your career + getting over mom guilt
Chirstine Chitnis, what’s next: Visualizing ways to make more money AND take more time off, and how she’s making that vision come true